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The White Goddess : A Historical Grammar of Poetic Myth

The White Goddess : A Historical Grammar of Poetic Myth

List Price: $17.00
Your Price: $11.56
Product Info Reviews

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Rating: 1 stars
Summary: Discredited by every credible scholar of Celtic Studies!
Review:

If you're thinking about buying this book... DON'T waste your money!

Any entertainment value that could otherwise be garnered from this work of fiction is greatly overshadowed by Graves' false claims that the material presented was authentic, and that it came from ancient Celtic culture. This is NOT the case. In fact, nothing presented in this book is authentic, and as it is falsely presented as such, what could have at least been an interesting work of fiction, even fails to entertain.

Amazingly, Robert Graves' "White Goddess" has become a 'classic' upon which many modern "tree Ogham" books and articles have been written, however, in this text lies little, if any, decipherable truths. In fact, the book is so laden with errors and gross misinformation that it was dismissed as fiction by the foremost authorities on both Celtic studies, and the Ogham, at the time it was written (1946), authorities still heavily relied upon today for their foresight and accuracy. In fact, one of those most well respected authorities (and to this day, likely the most knowledgeable scholar on the subject, ever) was Robert Graves' own grandfather, Charles Graves. (More on this in a minute).

Several main components of this text are purely fictional, as is the majority of the supporting "evidence," i.e., heavily denounced, false documents that R. Graves relied heavily upon to make some very poor assumptions, and totally wild claims.

First, Graves' translations of Celtic legend and lore are linguistically shoddy at best, and many of his interpretations are highly obscure. Further, his efforts to paint Celtic legend and lore as stemming from displaced Greeks and Hebrews, and to interpret meaning into these Celtic legends from such a foreign perspective does the area of legitimate Celtic studies a serious disservice. Graves didn't do us any favors!

Further, his claims concerning the Ogham and the Celtic Tree Calendar are also blatantly false, and have lead to a great deal of misinformation on the ancient writing system of the Celts, and ancient Celtic culture, in general that persists even today.

Robert Graves relied very heavily upon the thoroughly discredited manuscript written by Roderic O'Flaherty in the early 17th century, that first claimed that Ogham markings were correlated with trees, which is linguistically inaccurate. At best, only seven of the Ogham characters can be interpreted as having any correlation with tree names.

Secondly, and more amazingly, is his "discovery" of what he labeled the "Celtic Tree Calendar." Graves makes a far leap out into space, purporting that the Ogham was made up of five vowels and 13 primary consonants, which he claims equate to 13 months in a "Celtic Tree Calendar," when it was already well known that there are not 13, but 15 primary consonants in the Ogham (in addition to the five vowels, and another five supplemental characters) . How he managed to string together an imaginary Calendar "system" based upon O'Flaherty's manuscript, and upon which he claims Celtic culture operated, is completely beyond me.

This text has been a continuous thorn in the side of Celtic scholars and academia since its writing. Robert Graves had access to the two foremost scholars on the Ogham of all time, and chose to completely dismiss them both. Although it also appears that the author wrote this book out of spite, due to very a strained relationship with both his father and grandfather, Robert Graves' further dismissal of R.A.S. Macalister (a well known and highly respected expert on the Ogham) is appalling. (Robert wrote Macalister seeking corroboration of his ideas and when they were challenged by the scholar, he blew him off!)

As for Charles Graves, Robert Graves' grandfather was not only a very credible scholar, and THE foremost authority on the Ogham at the time, but was also the President of the Royal Irish Academy. He was the first scholar to discover a cryptic element to the Ogham markings, and was well received for his many contributions on the subject. Both the elder Graves and Macalister (who himself cited the work of Charles Grave's in his own research) had heavily denounced the false works of O'Flaherty, and further scoffed at Robert Graves' text, discrediting it as pure fallacy.

For more useful texts on the Ogham, I highly suggest R.A.S. Macallister's Corpus Inscriptionum Insularum Celticarum and The Secret Languages of Ireland (both which include work by Charles Graves), and George Calder's "Auriacept Na n-Éces - The Scholar's Primer." Some of Charles Graves' exceptional work on the Ogham can be found on-line, for free. Just do a search for: "On the Ogam Inscriptions," Hermathena, Vol. 3, c.19 C. His work on the Ogham was purely outstanding.

For more on the fallacy known as "The White Goddess," be sure to read the excellent review written by the modern Celtic scholar and author, Peter Berresford Ellis, at: http://cura.free.fr/xv/13ellis2.html

Best of luck!

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: pure MAGIC
Review: Even though I found it dufficult to understand the Gaelic spellings, this book was magical in its interpretation of anicient celtic beliefs. I could totally understand how the Bards of the day wished to keep their stories secret from the church in order to keep their TRUE stories and histories alive. This book is filled with some of the most beautiful poetry I have ever read and I own it.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: A Misguided Load of Nonsense
Review: Graves may have been a skilled author and poet, but when it came to understanding and explaining Celtic myth, he was hopeless. Most of this book is based on the fabrications of men like Edward Davies and Iolo Morgannwg, or upon a "fanciful" (read: completely incompetant) reading of the medieval Book of Taliesin, and not on authentic Irish or Welsh tradition. When a tradition doesn't suit Graves, he simple ignores it, or substitues it with his own ideas, or with foreign ideas. He corresponded with true Celtic scholars; in fact, his grandfather was president of the Royal Irish Academy. And yet, Graves seemed to have learned nothing from these men who devoted their careers to translating and iterpreting these medieval texts. As stated in other reviews, Graves makes a habit of combining features and myths which do not necessarily exist outside of his own mind.

The worst thing about this book is its influence. Much of what passes as "Celtic" or "Wiccan" or "Druidic" can be found in this horribly muddled text, such as the idea of a Maiden-Mother-Crone goddess (non-existant in Celtic myth), or the goddess-worship. But what is worse is his idea of a "tree calendar" based on the ogham script. This calendar is almost entirely of his own design (with some help from the 18th and 19th century forgeries and fantasies of men like Davies and Morgannwg). Yet this "Celtic" calendar is touted as a "real" druidic concept. Do a little research on the Celts, and you will soon learn that this is a complete fabrication.

The book is also sexist. It essentially says that women cannot be poets, since poetry is entirely about the worship/love for the White Goddess. Instead, women are to be muses, inspiring male poets, while incapable of actual creation themselves. Well, except for creating children for these men. For all the "Goddess worship" and supposed female empowerment that is seen in this book, the readers are obviously missing what is Graves' core message--that poetry is really about a desire for women. Reductive? Absolutely. But that's Graves' message.

This book is to be avoided except for those who wish to understand the origins of the "neopagan" movement. It's as worthless as that other piece of tripe, "The 21 Lessons of Merlyn".

If you want some descent books on the Celts or druids, check out the works of Ann Ross, P.B. Ellis, Stuart Piggot, and their breed. Read books like The Mabinogion or Trioedd Ynys Prydein. If you want to read the real poems of Taliesin, look for the work of Ifor Williams. Stick to the university presses, like the University of Wales Press or Dublin.

Rating: 1 stars
Summary: A Misguided Load of Nonsense
Review: Graves may have been a skilled author and poet, but when it came to understanding and explaining Celtic myth, he was hopeless. Most of this book is based on the fabrications of men like Edward Davies and Iolo Morgannwg, or upon a "fanciful" (read: completely incompetant) reading of the medieval Book of Taliesin, and not on authentic Irish or Welsh tradition. When a tradition doesn't suit Graves, he simple ignores it, or substitues it with his own ideas, or with foreign ideas. He corresponded with true Celtic scholars; in fact, his grandfather was president of the Royal Irish Academy. And yet, Graves seemed to have learned nothing from these men who devoted their careers to translating and iterpreting these medieval texts. As stated in other reviews, Graves makes a habit of combining features and myths which do not necessarily exist outside of his own mind.

The worst thing about this book is its influence. Much of what passes as "Celtic" or "Wiccan" or "Druidic" can be found in this horribly muddled text, such as the idea of a Maiden-Mother-Crone goddess (non-existant in Celtic myth), or the goddess-worship. But what is worse is his idea of a "tree calendar" based on the ogham script. This calendar is almost entirely of his own design (with some help from the 18th and 19th century forgeries and fantasies of men like Davies and Morgannwg). Yet this "Celtic" calendar is touted as a "real" druidic concept. Do a little research on the Celts, and you will soon learn that this is a complete fabrication.

The book is also sexist. It essentially says that women cannot be poets, since poetry is entirely about the worship/love for the White Goddess. Instead, women are to be muses, inspiring male poets, while incapable of actual creation themselves. Well, except for creating children for these men. For all the "Goddess worship" and supposed female empowerment that is seen in this book, the readers are obviously missing what is Graves' core message--that poetry is really about a desire for women. Reductive? Absolutely. But that's Graves' message.

This book is to be avoided except for those who wish to understand the origins of the "neopagan" movement. It's as worthless as that other piece of tripe, "The 21 Lessons of Merlyn".

If you want some descent books on the Celts or druids, check out the works of Ann Ross, P.B. Ellis, Stuart Piggot, and their breed. Read books like The Mabinogion or Trioedd Ynys Prydein. If you want to read the real poems of Taliesin, look for the work of Ifor Williams. Stick to the university presses, like the University of Wales Press or Dublin.

Rating: 3 stars
Summary: Heavy going, but sometimes worth it
Review: Having read some Robert Graves before, and knowing his style to be wordy and information dense, I expected this book to be somewhat heavy going, but it was even more tangled than I thought. It is by no means a book one can pick up and browse through at leisure, finding interesting tidbits along the way. Graves himself admitted to having written it in a Muse-induced fervour, and he does seem to dwell a long time on the subject of psychadelic mushrooms...

However, if there are specific items you wish to look up in the index, it can provide a wealth of information on, for instance, the Irish tree alphabet (Oghm), and the properties of each tree, or on the paga/wiccan calendar, though he gives the christian names to some of the festivals, and doens't always get the dates right.

All in all it is a good buy, very informaiton dense, but definately not for the faint-hearted, or those wanting a quick synopsis on the subject.

Rating: 4 stars
Summary: Flawed Masterpiece
Review: I am a great fan of Robert Graves. I find him to be an outstanding poet, an excellent novelist, and a compelling writer of non-fiction. Probably the best known, if not the best, example of the last mentioned genre is "The White Goddess."

When "Goddess" first appeared in the late 1940's it was a groundbreaking work; for lack of a better definition it is a book on cultural anthropolgy written by a poet, who felt that as a a poet and a man who understood the inner motivation of the poet he would give his views on the Muse and her invocation. The book covers a lot of territory, sprawling across civilization from the Greeks to the Celts, and from the three forms of the Muse to the Fisher King to the Ogham alphabet. It wanders so far that it's hard to keep up with Mr. Graves as he gallops across centuries and over distances. For those of us used to Mr. Graves' usual tight control of his material and its presentation, it's difficult to deal with how he jumps from subject to subject with little or no notice.

I'm almost tempted to say that this is Mr. Graves' version of "Finnegan's Wake", only in a non-fictional form. It certainly is his encomium to the White Goddess, whom he identifies as the original Muse of all poets, including himself. There's enough to think about for years in this book, and neo-pagan movements may be described as having largely started based on the thoughts provoked by this book.

But Graves was a poet, not a social scientist, and in the last fifty years many of his observations have been proven to be wrong. This in itself is not so surprising, nor is it really such a bad thing; the real problem is the amount of emotional residue that those ideas left in their wake. Graves makes some observations that some would find offensive now, such as his allegation that women can't be real poets - they have no Muse to appeal to, the White Goddess only wants the worship of males. He makes a possible exception of Sappho, for what it's worth.

In short, "Goddess" still deserves to be read - it's a good, albeit exhausting read, and Graves is always worth reading - but it would be a mistake to pick up his ideas and run with them.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Allow yourselves to discover a different universe
Review: I am not an expert on the topics and themes touched by this book, but how many doors, ideas and sensations are opened by it! Nothing prepared me for the beauty in it. I understand that many things in it are speculation from the author, but what daring views, what awarenes of connections.

I would recommend the readers to continue on to "King Jesus"

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: A bible for romantic souls and young spirits
Review: I can not express my review simply by words. I just say: "read the book and allow yourself to believe the authors deductions although they are not based on empirical ground"

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: Inspired and inspiring
Review: I found The White Goddess very early on my Pagan path, and instantly fell in love. It was far more original and evocative than anything I had read up to that point, and was decisively influential on my developing spiritual views. Now, years later I still hold this book and its author in high esteem, although I am aware of the problems and shortcomings of Graves and his work. Graves isn't a rigorous acedemic, but he does have a wide knowledge and, more importantly, a poetic sensibility. He does get off-topic, and The White Goddess does drag at times, but that can only be expected of a book of this breadth and scope. And yes, Graves has created in The White Goddess a personal religion, with all the idiosyncracy which that implies - but this is the work of a thoughtful and informed individual with a passion for the Goddess. Though I do not share Graves's outlook on many things - I quickly weary of the sacrificed king theme - The White Goddess is an inspired and inspiring work, and one of profound impact on modern Pagan thought.

Rating: 5 stars
Summary: The White Goddess - Through Western History
Review: I thought this book was great. It ties a lot of things together for me between Eastern Religion and Western Religion and explained the White Goddess quite well. There was a lot of Druid and Children of the Goddess Danu concepts explained along with ties to Denmark and the Norse areas. it also explained how the Irish were so easily Chrisitanized but still lept their pagan goddess in the form of St. Bridget. It just traced a lot of cultural movement of peoples and their religions and cultural customs. It also spoke of the importance of nature and the trees in the lives of people and how the system of writting evolved from this. Poetry was very stressed. Loved the book. I hope it shows five stars on the top.


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