The Birth of Vietnam

Rating:
Summary: Great book for Everyone
Review: First of all, I 'd like to say Thank you to Canadian Maple Leaf for your excellent commenting job on that Communist. I praise you for having by far such a good knowledge of Viet Nam history. You're the few Westerners who truly know what you're talking about when it comes to South-East Asia.
Ironically, the person who knows the most about Viet Nam is not Vietnamese and the person who lives in Vietnam doesn't know anything about the country he lives in.
The Communists in Viet Nam either have put our intellectuals, scientists, religious and political leaders (others than Communists) in jail or Re-education camps or chased them off from the country.
The Communists, much like Hitler did for Germany, have vowed to clean Viet Nam from all its cultural values and history by burning books and tearing down monuments and re-write Viet Nam history according to them.
So you can only expect so much when it comes to logical arguments or even good knowledge of history or political subjects when talking to one of them.
This is just to give you all a perspective of what is happening.

Well... enough of the political side. Back to the book.

It is an awesome book people! Read it if you'd like to learn more about Viet Nam History. A great job by the author in putting together so much details and researches. Many Foreigners as much as Vietnamese will learn a lot from this book.
Viet Nam has 4,000 years of history; much of it has been lost during the last 50 years, mainly because of the war and cleansing by the Communists.
This book compiled a great deal of information for people like me who'd like to start piecing together the "whole picture". Because I would have not been allowed to do so in Viet Nam.

Thanks.

Rating:
Summary: Best work available in either English or VNese on this topic
Review: I don't think one needs to engage in chest-thumping nationalism to praise Taylor's work. The book is a beautiful example of solid scholarship. Taylor uses both Chinese and Vietnamese primary sources and compares them to give a more realistic picture behind the nationalist myths that Vietnamese schoolchildren (both North and South) have been taught for decades. Taylor also draws upon a large body of secondary sources in Chinese, Vietnamese, French, English, and Japanese. I doubt that there is ANY scholarship on this period of Vietnamese history in either Vietnamese or English that is of a higher quality than this. A work of lucid writing founded on excellent research.

Rating:
Summary: Reply to "Reviewer" from La Drang Valley
Review: My comments appear below the original comments (in quotes) from the so called reviewer from La Drang Valley.

"I feel kinda bad refuting the previous reviewer's claims..."
--You are not refuting their claims, you are making moronic statements.

"Vietnam, which uses the French colonial method of writing and pronounciation (?, I'm not sure, actually), "
--If you are not sure, then research before making erroneous claims. Also, try to learn how to spell `pronunciation" properly. What exactly is the "French colonial method"?

"...is same as Yuenan in the Chinese pinyin form. That means south of the Yue, and Yue is a southern Chinese region, Cantonese is the language of the Yue."
--Cantonese and Vietnamese are two different languages. A Cantonese speaker does not understand a Vietnamese speaker and vice versa; just as German and English are two different languages.

"I don't know about Chinese being the historical enemy of the Vietnamese,"
--Chinese ARE historical enemy of the Vietnamese. Read the book to clear your ignorance and see for yourself.

"...they are pretty much related with the latter basically a derivative of the former.
--Chinese and Vietnamese share certain Mongoloid characteristics; but one does not derive from the other.

"I would tell the reviewer he should be thankful China helped Vietnam to win the War against the Americans, but my guess he is a refugee South Vietnamese who probably wished that Americans fought to the end so that Vietnam today can be split into two just like Korea... "
--Actually, South Vietnam was much better off economically before the North Vietnam took over; just as West Germany was better of than East Germany, and South Korea than North Korea. China did not do the South Vietnamese people a favour by helping communist North Vietnam.

"...but my guess he is a refugee South Vietnamese who probably wished that Americans fought to the end so that Vietnam today can be split into two just like Korea... "
(See my comment to the last point above). Well, my guess is that you are either a communist sympathizer or a Chinese; or most likely both.

Rating:
Summary: Great book for Everyone
Review: this book will let the world knows who were the true one that came up with such inventions instead of the Chinese as previously thought.

Rating:
Summary: Many kudos for KW Taylor.
Review: This is, by far, the most authoritative work in English about the history of Vietnam from prehistory to 974 AD.

The Vietnamese (Lac people as they were called at the time) were part of the Dong Son civilization, which was characterized by its bronze drums depicting aquatic scenery. Over the years, they brought to the Asian culture the "pho", the "ao dai", various musical instruments, poetry, and so on.

But what defined the Vietnamese is their indomitable aspiration for freedom. They just wanted to be left alone, therefore, were not always seen as "actors", but "reactors" to events around them. Despite being dominated for along time by the Chinese and the French, they yearned to live in a free country.

Sandwiched between giant China in the north and the kingdoms of Champa and Khmer in the south, they knew a long time ago they were not Chinese and, therefore, refused to remain enslaved by them. The Trung sisters (see book of same name) revolted against the Chinese and reigned as the first and only Queens of Vietnam until 42 AD. Defeated by Ma Yuan, they fell back under Chinese influence until 939 AD until Ngo Quyen was brilliant enough to recover the country's independence.

The period covered by Taylor represented the difficult times the Lac people went through to mature into an organized society strong enough to free themselves from the Chinese. Besides the Trung Queens, many others had tried unsuccessfully over the years to free from the Chinese yoke. The birth of Vietnam was thus not a smooth and normal one: it was the result of a series of abortive rebellions until its final success in 939 AD.

Rating:
Summary: I wish Americans Read This Before The Vietnam War
Review: To me, a Vietnamese, born and grew up in Vietnam but being educated from both countries, this book is amazing. I read it so many times and still see new aspect everytime I read it again. If you want to understand about Vietnamese history and culture, particularly their relationship to China - no matter you are a Vietnamese living abroad or a foreigner - I highly recommend you to take time reading this precious book. Thanks a zillion to Keith for his enormous effort and relentless interest in Vietnamese history.

Rating:
Summary: I wish Americans Read This Before The Vietnam War
Review: To me, a Vietnamese, born and grew up in Vietnam but being educated from both countries, this book is amazing. I read it so many times and still see new aspect everytime I read it again. If you want to understand about Vietnamese history and culture, particularly their relationship to China - no matter you are a Vietnamese living abroad or a foreigner - I highly recommend you to take time reading this precious book. Thanks a zillion to Keith for his enormous effort and relentless interest in Vietnamese history.

Rating:
Summary: To "Not Really..."... LEARN SOMETHING!
Review: Your ignorance surprises me. You lack knowledge in almost all fields of Vietnamese history! People in VIETNAM resent Communist rule, Vietnam was at a much better economic (some might say at a boom) before the war started. China only supplied the knife which rammed into the hearts of the Vietnamese people. There's a reason why Vietnam today is moving farther and farther away from Communism and more and more towards Capitalism.

The native language of the Yueh tribe was not Cantonese. Your conclusion is once again a product of ingnorance. You are probably Chinese, and Cantonese. The Cantonese langauge can be translated to Yue, and the Cantonese can be identified as a group of people who has Yueh blood, but the Cantonese language was not the language of the Yueh. It's only a coincident that the Chinese language use the same word for the ancient people and the Cantonese langauge. The langauge and people have no connection, or very little connection at all. The southern Fukienese are actually more Yueh than the Cantonese are. The Yueh had their own ancient language, which was so different from what Cantonese is that it wouldn't be considered Cantonese. The Yueh spoke a language which was most likely the ancestor language of Vietnamese and, to an extent, Cantonese. But like Latin and it's descendents, French can't be called the language of the Romans, nor can Italian be. You're general lack in Vietnamese history, and general lack in logic, analytical and thinking skills astonishes me.

Vietnamese and Chinese are brothers, but the Yueh kingdom of Vietnam, of which the Vietnamese people are direct descendents from (recorded by Chinese and Vietnamese records if you ever have the urge to actually learn something), lived adjacent to the ancient Chinese kingdoms. Vietnamese nationalism is a show of loyalty to that original blood, not to what the Chinese gave us. If Vietnam was actually part of that original Chinese kingdom and broke off, then yes, we would be a derivative, but we didn't. We were separate, got conquered, then separated once again. We were a different entity, even during times of being conquered.

And if you learn some Viet history, the Chinese has ALWAYS been our MOST HATED FOE. Since 2500 years ago when you first fought our people.

Rating:
Summary: To "Not really..." who's blinded by sheer ignorance
Review: Your ignorance surprises me. You lack knowledge in almost all fields of Vietnamese history! People in VIETNAM resent Communist rule, Vietnam was at a much better economic (some might say at a boom) before the war started. China only supplied the knife which rammed into the hearts of the Vietnamese people. There's a reason why Vietnam today is moving farther and farther away from Communism and more and more towards Capitalism.
The native language of the Yueh tribe was not Cantonese. Your conclusion is once again a product of ingnorance. You are probably Chinese, and Cantonese. The Cantonese langauge can be translated to Yue, and the Cantonese can be identified as a group of people who has Yueh blood, but the Cantonese language was not the language of the Yueh. It's only a coincident that the Chinese language use the same word for the ancient people and the Cantonese langauge. The langauge and people have no connection, or very little connection at all. The southern Fukienese are actually more Yueh than the Cantonese are. The Yueh had their own ancient language, which was so different from what Cantonese is that it wouldn't be considered Cantonese. The Yueh spoke a language which was most likely the ancestor language of Vietnamese and, to an extent, Cantonese. But like Latin and it's descendents, French can't be called the language of the Romans, nor can Italian be. You're general lack in Vietnamese history, and general lack in logic, analytical and thinking skills astonishes me.

Vietnamese and Chinese are brothers, but the Yueh kingdom of Vietnam, of which the Vietnamese people are direct descendents from (recorded by Chinese and Vietnamese records if you ever have the urge to actually learn something), lived adjacent to the ancient Chinese kingdoms. Vietnamese nationalism is a show of loyalty to that original blood, not to what the Chinese gave us. If Vietnam was actually part of that original Chinese kingdom and broke off, then yes, we would be a derivative, but we didn't. We were separate, got conquered, then separated once again. We were a different entity, even during times of being conquered. The original Yueh tribe come from what is NOW southern China, but back then, that territory was neither Chinese nor did it belong to a Cantonese speaking ancestor. The area was originally occupied with only the Yueh and it's relatives, not the Han. If you even know what a Han is. If the Viets are Han, then we would be truly derived from the Chinese, but we are not, and even Chinese scholars admit we are descendents to the Yueh, and not the Han. The Yueh and Han fought constantly in ancient times, if you even bother to read anything at all.

And if you learn some Viet history, the Chinese has ALWAYS been our MOST HATED FOE. Since 2500 years ago when you first fought our people. This coming from a Viet, not a Chinese who wants to be Viet (an imposter you might say). Because if you were truly Vietnamese, this would've been a given. It does sicken me that the Vietnamese do hold racist views against the Chinese (which stems from the massacres and wars we had with eachother, which would make it understandable), but it is the truth, and any, and all, Viets would know this. So by just this, all i know is that you are not Vietnamese, and your ignorance of Vietnamese history can be justified. But because you opened your mouth on a subject you know nothing about astonishes me. Which gives you no justification at all. You remain an unintelligible wannabee who thinks he knows more than he really does. Who speaks without knowledge, nor with depth of thought.

Just had to add this on.