The Collected Dialogues of Plato

Rating:
Summary: it's better than...
Review: As if after reading Plotinus, Augustine and all those Arabian philosophers with those names one can never recall, we needed another commentary on the works of Plato. Cela va de soi (it goes without saying), Plato has been remembered for a reason. Although, there are some philosophers who would consider Plato a mistake (Quine for example, if I remember rightly, refused to teach a class on Plato), I think it would be absurd not to consider Plato at all. There are some dialogues in this book (such as the Timaeus) that will make you yawn, others, like Gorgias, the Symposium and the Laws will make you wide-awake in wonder. But most importantly, these dialogues will introduce you to Socrates. Although, there is no way to ascertain whether it was Plato or Socrates speaking in these dialogues, most assume that in The Apology, The Crito and a few of Plato's other early dialouges, one gets a glimpse of the real Socrates. Socrates, in Plato's (and also Xenophanes) dialouges is a good man, one who will inspire you. He'll teach you the advantages of being open-minded, of realizing human ignorance, and above all, self-knowledge ('know thyself', 'the unexamined life is a life not worth living'). Which, in my opinion, makes Plato worth reading. I would encourage you to read these dialogues and take what you can, and then go on to Aristotle.

Also recommended: Toilet: The Novel, by Michael Szymczyk. The Oxford Companion to Philosophy. The Complete Works of Aristotle. Early Greek Philosophy by Jonathan Barnes. Lives of Eminent Philosophers by Diogenes Laertius.



Rating:
Summary: Second best Plato collection in English
Review: Here is what you get:

CONTENTS

Editorial Note (editors)

Introduction (Huntington Cairns)

Apology

Crito

Phaedo

Charmides

Laches

Lysis

Euthyphro

Menexenus

Lesser Hippias

Ion

Gorgias

Protagoras

Meno

Euthydemus

Cratylus

Phaedrus

Symposium

Republic

Theaetetus

Parmenides

Sophist

Statesman

Philebus

Timaeus

Critias

Laws

Epinomis *

Greater Hippias *

Letters *

* denotes items whose authenticity is seriously doubted.

The most irritating thing about this collection is the moronic, but mercifully short, Edith Hamilton introductions to the dialogues.

Let us take some examples from her introduction to the dialogue "Euthyphro":

"When Socrates asks what then is piety, he [Euthyphro] gives the answer characteristic of the orthodox everywhere - in effect 'Piety is thinking as I do.'"

Is this really the case? Is that all that Moses, Isaiah, Paul, Augustine, Aquinas, and Martin Luther, to name only a few, had to say on the subject?

Here is another:

"Socrates makes a distinction fundamental in reasoning and often disregarded, that the good is good not because the gods approve it, but the gods approve it because it is good."

There is several hundred years of intense philosophical and theological debate (still continuing) settled in a pretty summary fashion.

Finally, there is this:

"The real interest of the dialogue, however, is the picture of Socrates just before his trial...keenly involved in a discussion completely removed from his own situation."

One of the charges against Socrates was of course impiety. Also, I guess, it is ridiculous to assume that there is much inherent interest or significance in asking questions about the metaphysical grounding of the good, especially by comparison with Hamilton's fascinating "People" magazine approach to philosophy.

In one sense, the introductions do, however, perfectly introduce Plato. The multiple layers of stupidity in the introductions make a striking contrast with the multiple layers of insight in the dialogues themselves. When the reader goes from Hamilton to Plato, it is wonderfully pleasurable to feel the effect of the author's IQ jumping about 200 points.

As others have noted, if you have a free choice, "Plato: Complete Works", edited by John M. Cooper is the Plato collection to get. The translations are more modern, the introductions are smarter (if not longer), the footnotes identifying people, places and events more numerous, and many more of the works of uncertain authenticity are included, which have historical significance if nothing else.

If you do have to buy this collection for school or because it is used as a reference by some other work you're reading, don't despair. You're still getting Plato. Also, you're getting the better index.

Here, for example, is the index entry for "habit" from this collection:

habit: in education of infants, Laws 7.792e, force of, ib. 4.708c; and nature, ib. 7.794e; and temperament, ib. 2.655e; and virtue, Rep. 7.518e, 10.619c

And here is the entry from the Cooper collection:

habit: L. 2.655e, 4.708c, 7.792e, 7.794e; R. 7.518e, 10.619c.

Rating:
Summary: Superior Book on Plato
Review: I have looked at most of the translations of Plato's works, and this is by far the best. The writers here were concerned with giving the typical reader a meaningful translation. In these works, you know what Plato was trying to say. Most of the other works were written for academics who are looking for something different, even if it isn't meaningful--in fact they like that better so they have something to teach.

Rating:
Summary: Superior Book on Plato
Review: I have looked at most of the translations of Plato's works, and this is by far the best. The writers here were concerned with giving the typical reader a meaningful translation. In these works, you know what Plato was trying to say. Most of the other works were written for academics who are looking for something different, even if it isn't meaningful--in fact they like that better so they have something to teach.

Rating:
Summary: The Collected Dialogues of Plato
Review: I have read several of the translations of Plato's dialogues by different scholars... this is the best one that I have come across. Granted Ms. Hamilton's introductions are a little sparce, but that leaves the reader to form a better opinion... not one jaded. This edition is one of the most complete volumes available... where Letters, Menexenus, Lesser Hippias and Ion are found with a rather extensive index and the standard numbering lines from the Greek text.

We have meaningful translations, translations of what Plato was trying to say in todays English language... I know that over time languages grow and evolve but here we read the dialogues like a short story full of life and viable.

The translations in this volume are from: Lane Cooper, F.M. Cornford, W.K.C. Guthrie, R. Hackforth, Michael Joyce, Benjamin Jowett, L.A. Post, W.H.D. Rouse, Paul Shorey, J.B.Skemp, A.E. Taylor Hugh Tredennick, W.D. Woodhead, and J. Wright.

For being a one volume set, this is about as complete as it gets.

Rating:
Summary: It's lasted
Review: The introductions are a little silly. Ms. Hamilton never seems to like a dialouge if it has complex language. But, it's lasted. It's cheaper than the other, and.......How can you give a bad review to Plato?

Rating:
Summary: No longer standard! Do not use!
Review: This dreadful anthology was once the standard English edition of Plato. I had to assign it when I taught courses on Plato because there was nothing else. Many of the translations are bad. Even the decent ones often are quite old, and their flowery Victorian diction is off-putting. The collection isn't complete, as it leaves out a number of important dialogues from the Platonic corpus. And the introductions are uniformly ghastly; the editors have little understnding of philosophy, and keep saying horrible things like "There's a lot of boring logic-chopping in this dialogue, but at least the personality of Socrates is engaging." There is no longer any need to be subject to the tyranny of Hamilton & Cairns! There is now a far better edition, with excellent introductions, excellent translations, and including all the dialogues. It's the COMPLETE WORKS from Hackett Pub., edited by John Cooper. It will be the standard edition from now on. Go get that one! Don't get this one!

Rating:
Summary: Plato
Review: This edition of the works of Plato includes translations of the works by scholar such as: Francis Macdonald Cornford, A.E. Taylor, Benjamin Jowett, W.K.C. Guthrie, and Paul Shorey. The edition is probably the most complete available, since it includes "Ion," "Lesser Hippias," "Menexenus," and the "Letters." Most texts omit these works and I find that it is nice to finally have them.

The typeface is readable, and the pages are clean and bright, so that should facilitate ease in reading. The binding appears to be sturdy and should hold-up.

The features include brief introductions (I'll comment on that later) and a rather extensive index. There is also a short introduction by Huntington Cairns. The texts also include the standard line numbering from the Greek text.

The brief introductions are laughable and can (and ought to be) skipped. Edith Hamilton, though a respected woman, is not a Plato scholar. Her little introductions don't impede the reader, though.

Rating:
Summary: Standard, but use caution
Review: This is generally considered the standard collection of Plato's dialogues. On the whole it's pretty good, and it's certainly convenient. Just two caveats: (1) Edith Hamilton's introductions to the dialogues must be taken with more than a few grains of salt. She has a sentimental attitude that amounts to saying, "Plato was such a wise and good man -- almost as wise and good as we are!" When it comes to the more difficult dialogues (e.g. Parmenides), she is out of her depth. (2) To get a sense of the difficulties in translating Plato, read the preface to Allan Bloom's translation of the Republic (Basic Books). Bloom is particularly hard on Cornford, some of whose translations are reprinted here. Just keep in mind that, if you want to study Plato more closely, you may have to use more literal translations or learn some Greek.

Rating:
Summary: I Hate Plato
Review: Yes, I think Plato's philosophy is one of the most despicable things unleashed on this Earth. His idea that this world we live in is only semi-real has lead to most of the bad philosphy in recorded history. Only a few philosphers have escaped from under his glare. It's most ironic that one of those is his most famous student: Aristotle.
However, as a lover of knowledge and a student of philosophy, I realize the tremendous debt owed to Plato. First, he understood how imprtant it was to record his ideas. Socrates did not and for this the world is almost assuredly the worst for it. Secondly, he was and absolutely amazing writer. His ability to put his ideas forth in a lucid manner that anyone can uderstand is amazing. Thirdly, he was the first philosopher who devised a full system of knowledge. He wrote on metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, politics and aesthetics.
It is further unfortunate that this text has become the standard by which philosphy students must study Plato. The text is rigid, and as an earlier reviewer noted, Hamilton's intros suck. It is ridiculous to think of her as a serious Platonic scholar. But the Cooper text is much harder to come by, and the Hamilton is required in most courses on Plato. If you have the means, secure yourself a copy of both.