New Mormon Challenge, The

Rating:
Summary: These authors didn't even start from the right place
Review: Another book written from the ridiculous premise that "Mormonism has 11,000,000 members and is growing exponentially." This is a silly assertion based on no researched facts. I am appalled that these authors, apparently careful in other respects, merely take the LDS church's own figures as fact. The Mormon church has a very liberal way of counting members. First, they have five/six/seven children as a typical family. All of these children are baptized at age eight and remain on the rolls of the church until they are 110 years old. (No, I'm not kidding. They remain on the rolls until they would have reached 110.) Only about l/3 of these baptized children actually attend church or contribute in any way, but they are counted just the same. Then, if a person actually bothers to take the unusual step of notifying the LDS church that they wish to have their name removed, the Mormons have routinely ignored their letters, "lost" their letters, threatened the resigning member with eternal consequences or excommunicaiton, and never bothered removing their name anyway. Thousands DO resign each year and many hundreds of thousands just go inactive with no notification. They are still counted.

Secondly, they send out young men to third world countries to baptize people who don't even speak English. The Mormons admit - themselves - that the retention rate on these baptisms is something like 25% in places like Thailand or Brazil. You can bet that if the Mormons admit to such a dreadful number, it is much lower. The Mormons have their own horror stories to tell about "baseball" baptisms, for example, where whole sports teams were baptized with a chance to play baseball as the incentive. You can bet most of these men are no longer active.

The missionary program is not expanding, it is getting smaller. A little research would have shown these "scholars" that mission fields are closing or shrinking around the world. Missionaries now must "qualify" for missions - prove that they are worthy to enter the program. More young men are opting out of this "rite of passage," anyway.

The Mormons are not apologizing so much as they are just changing their doctrine. At the end of the 1970's, the Mormons suddenly decided that blacks could hold the Priesthood. This was "revealed" to the prophet by God. Since Mormons believe in the voice of God speaking through their present day prophet, then each doctrinal element need only be explained away until it changes. Modern day prophets trump earlier prophets. This church could easily be called "The Church of What's Happenin' Now" as Flip Wilson coined.

I guess the authors of this book needed to justify getting themselves published so they neglect to tell the reader that Mormon churches are not "growing" as fast as the Seventh Day Adventists, the Jehovah Witnesses or the Assembly of God church on any given years. But, we don't bother "refuting" these churches or calculate their "dangerous numbers" within twenty-five years. The right wing political force of Christian coalition, in my opinion, is just as dangerous.

All in all, I think these authors spent a lot of time dealing in nonsense. MOrmonism should not be granted such a scholarly approach. They have done nothing, themselves, to deserve the attention.

Disclaimer: I did not read this book, but would NOT buy it just from the blatant inaccuracies on their book description.

Kaye P. - EX-Mormon

Rating:
Summary: At it again.........
Review: Beckwith is a long-time Mormon-basher who has been shown to be so wrong it's a wonder he has the audacity to keep repeating the same tired story. He was taken apart and handed his errors in the book "How Greek Philosophy Corrupted the Christian Concept of God." That's why he's come up with this book. He knows scholarly LDS writers are more than one man can stand up to---he being one of those men who has tried.

There is not enough space here to illustrate the errors of the classical theist and their mixture of Judaism, Greek and Oriental philosophy, and paganism. Instead I will recommend two books:
1. How Greek Philosophy Corrupted the Christian Concept of God.
2. The Father is Not the Son.

The first book especially knocks Beckwith out of the argument over the Trinity. Very few people accept the classical theists view of the Trinity, which was a figment of man's imagination during the Middle Ages. These books easily prove the errors of the classical theist. Even if one is so stubborn as to hang on to the metaphysical beliefs of the classical theist, it would be good to know the other side, if just for the knowledge in talking with more enlightened thinkers. One example: The ancient Jews had no concept of metaphysics. The Jews were realists and meant what they said even when figuratively speaking. The Greeks dealt with just about everything using metaphysics, the more abstruse the better, it seems. The scriptures were revealed to the Jews, not the Greeks. Why, then, did Greek metaphysics--i.e. the Trinity, incorporeality of God, incomprehensibility of God, etc.--creep into Christian doctrine? These books will explain that.

Good, faithful Christians truly think they believe the Bible only. Unfortunately, they do not realize the errors of their doctrines due to the metaphysics that crept in during the years of the apostasy after the original apostles died. However, people like Beckwith should know this. But, then, what would they write on to make money from books? How about the truth?

As you read this you will notice the "reviewers" who have read my review here will say this review was not helpful to them. Of course it isn't. When you are looking for "literature" to help you criticize and blaspheme other religions, you are not going to get much help from this review. Your mind is already made up,and it is certainly not open to any other idea. This is also proof that they did not read the books recommended in my review here. I challenge those that got "no help" (because they didn't want help. They were looking for "ammunition" to "shoot down" the Mormons) from this review to read those books, then come back and tell me where they are wrong and how they can support the Greek metaphysics in "orthodox Christianity"

Rating:
Summary: Deception?
Review: I am personally acquainted with two of the editors of this book, Paul Owen and Carl Mosser, and have enjoyed conversing with them on "Mormon" topics. Their interest in this subject was prompted by a perception that most of the books critical of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were written by Evangelicals (most of them ministers) who are not qualified to deal with the issue from a scholarly level. Beckwith, Mosser, and Owen want to elevante the discussion to a new height by having well-trained Evangelical scholars meet the challenge inherent in the recent proliferation of scholarly literature by Latter-day Saint scholars. The scholars they invited to participate in this dialogue are certainly qualified in their particular fields, but most of them know little or nothing about "Mormonism." Indeed, the major failing of this book is that the various authors who contributed to the volume are able to discuss topics only insofar as the editors provided them the raw data with which to work. The unfortunate result is that they are not aware of most of the published material on the subjects in question. So I say, nice try, guys, but shouldn't your associates look into the issues in more detail before responding in a manner that is bound to discredit their articles?

Rating:
Summary: Gimp-Boy Weighs In
Review: I am surprised by the number of reviews from people who have not read this book, yet somehow, they feel qualified to rate this scholarly work. Mr. Mosser's insights regarding the LSD church are insightful and well written. Paul Owen's writing is OK, yet it is a little too feminine in nature for my taste (You go girl!). Moreover, unlike Dr. Bosch, I will continue to take my psychotropic medicine as prescribed by our mutual physician. This book is completely truthful, and the pretty red and yellow cover-jacket add a flare of class.

The New Moron Challenge is just that...a challenge to all morons to see the light. Given this premise, ardent supporters of the ACLU should benefit from its advice. Unfortunately, this probably will not occur, as the New Moron Challenge does not contain any pictures. Unlike previous books on Moronism, the New Moron Challenge is much newer, but really costs about the same. Like Dr. Bosch points out in his review, "I am woman, hear me roar!" What the Dr. fails to grasp is that, while chewing on peyote may seem to broadens one's understanding of the moron culture, writing a review while under its influence is not the best idea. That is why I chew snuff. Just a pinch between my cheek and gum really satisfies. In fact, it has been satisfying customers since 1822, so it must be good for you.

My only complaint with this book is that it did not address the issue of Hebrew dating, which to date (no pun intended), is an issue that the LDS church has flip-flopped on numerous occasions. Early on, the LDS allowed the Hebrews to date, but changed their stance later on saying that the Hebrews could no longer engage in such activity. I not only feel the LDS overacted in this area, but I find it highly suspect that this change of doctrine took place right after Utah Governor Jesse Ventura began cracking down on polygamy and wife-swapping. Now don't get me wrong, I am definitely not endorsing polygamy, nor do I think Albertson's decision to stop accepting competitor's coupons is a wise move. However, the fact remains that we should allow the Hebrews to date. Unfortunately, true Christian groups like the Reformed Baptists or Four-Square congregations have remained silent on this matter for way too long. Well, let me be the first to say that "silence" in this case is definitely NOT "golden." We should all take a step back and reflect on the words of Apostle Bob when he said, "Do it to others before they do it to you." The bottom line is that we should allow the Hebrews to date and Christians should be trying to offer more assistance than just praying, not that we should not pray. I just feel that we Christians need to take more of an active role in facilitating their efforts now that the LDS Church has strictly forbidden it. Just my two-sense worth as I continue to fight for the dating of Hebrews, which has often been a highly contested issue, but one the Muslims are not open to discuss. I hope that some strong Christian, other than my personal care attendant or me will have the courage to do further research in this area. It wouldn't take the average person more than several months to complete such research, and even those who are slightly less intelligent or slow could accomplish the project in about one year's time. Of course, there will always be those few who will undertake such a project and draw it out over several years, but this would only include the mentally challenged. But who cares? Even those people need something to occupy their time. It is not as if they have anything else to do. In the end, getting the Hebrews a date is definitely one issue that all Christians, along with those in Moron Church, should grapple with at some point as we continue our walk in perfection.


Rating:
Summary: Academic essays which take Mormonism seriously!
Review: I highly recommend this book to intellectual Christians and Mormons, whether involved professionally and/or personally with their faiths. No longer can Christian academia be accused of publicly ignoring Mormon apologetic efforts. This book offers a serious, massively end-noted response by impeccable Christian scholars to important issues raised by the Latter-day Saints' academic community. Several indices and a glossary of terms are included for referencing. What follows is a brief summary of the book's topics:

Paul Copan and William Craig relay a brilliant defense of Christianity's view of God's creation ex nihilo in contrast to the Mormon belief of the world's organization from eternally existing matter.

Jim Adams examines the evidence for Mormon belief in pre-existence and eternality of human souls, and of the gods in general, in light of the teachings of the Old Testament.

Stephan Parrish and Francis Beckwith deal with moral law, the human/divine freedom of choice, and how they relate to the Mormon and Christian concepts of God.

J.P. Moreland dissects Orson Pratt's view of humanity and its dependence on material existence.

Paul Owens looks at monotheism from the perspective of the New Testament and how it contradicts the published views of several prominent Mormon scholars.

Craig Blomberg takes up the question of whether or not Mormonism is Christian.

The final section of the book focuses on the Book of Mormon, evalutating it on the basis of linguistics in the ancient Near East (Thomas Finley) and by contrasting principles of translation with possibilities of pseudotranslation (David Shepherd).

For those who crave detailed and cogent arguments, intellectual stimulation, and thoughtful interaction in Christian and Mormon apologetics, look no further than this book and ENJOY!

Rating:
Summary: Has its good parts but is philosophically deep
Review: If anything can be said about The New Mormon Challenge (henceforth TNMC), it has to be that it is sure to create controversy. After all, never before have so many different Christian scholars attempted to respond-in one volume, even-to Brigham Young University professors as well as LDS apologists.

The position taken by the editors assumes that the words of LDS scholars or even the personal beliefs of the laity may supercede that of the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve. For the average Mormon, truth is contained in the four standard works and the current words of the leaders. When one of the editors, Carl Mosser, says that "evangelical apologists" are "jealously" guarding a type of Mormonism that is not believed by Mormons, I ask if Mosser believes the majority of Mormons would hold to the following beliefs: 1) The idea that "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become; 2) The idea that temple work is essential to reaching the highest level of the celestial kingdom; 3) The idea that ultimate truth is to be found in the Standard Works as well as the LDS prophet and apostles; 4) The idea that a person must be baptized in the Mormon Church to have an authentic baptismal experience; 5) The idea that Joseph Smith and succeeding church leaders were given complete authority on earth; 6) The idea that the Mormon Church is the most trustworthy church in the world.

The list could go on. The point is that I have no doubt that no less than 80 percent of all Latter-day Saints would immediately agree with me that the above six points as fully being Mormon doctrine. I am not sure why Mosser makes a blanket statement to make it appear that Christians involved with LDS outreaches are making up their own brand of Mormonism-a straw man, so to speak-so they can more easily tear the religion down. This, I believe, is just not accurate.

While the editors would like the Christian community to direct more effort to respond to the scholarly LDS community while paying less attention to the teachings of LDS leaders, they forget one very important point. That is, the Mormon Church is considered to be a restoration of the Christianity that is said to have died soon after the time of the apostles. When Joseph Smith was supposedly given the keys of this authority by Peter, James, John, and even by God the Father and Jesus, it is believed by most Mormons that he was personally given the authority the church lost more than a millennium ago.

Indeed, Smith's own history records that the Christian churches "were all wrong" (Joseph Smith-History 1:19). Succeeding leaders have made it a point to declare that there is no true church on the face of the earth except for the Mormon Church itself. Currently Mormons hold that all authority rests with current LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley, his First Presidency, and the apostles. For a vast majority of Latter-day Saints, what a certain BYU professor or FARMS scholar says does not mean half as much as what President Hinckley says, especially at the general conference.

So my question is why focus on the scholars when most LDS members direct their attention of the Standard Works and LDS leadership? (Strange, but I wonder why the Mormon high school seminary students merely study the Bible, D&C, and Book of Mormon during their four years of study. I don't see them studying "Church Scholars.")

Who is this book intended to reach? Perhaps it was meant as a discussion for the scholars. No doubt it will be a great resource for seminary professors and some pastors. It will probably also be a great asset to Christian apologists.

Yet I just don't see how TNMC-though attracting LDS intellectuals to the table of discussion-will have a wide impact on the general LDS community. I doubt most Mormons will ever even hear of this book, let alone pick it up in their lifetime. It can be safely said that the majority of Mormons are too busy with families, church-related activities, donating their time in church ministry, etc. to even care what the scholars, either Mormon or Christian, declare is truth. The Mormon has a burning in his bosom, and no scholar could ever alter this "fact" regardless of the available evidence.

Its depth will probably confuse many readers who do not have a considerable grasp of the book's technical language related to philosophy, logic, and science. Those Christians who buy TNMC thinking it is a witnessing-tip manual will be sorely disappointed as the arguments will be unintelligible to the average Mormon.

With this being said, I need to temper my criticism by saying there are many important arguments raised in TNMC that will be beneficial for many Christians. The best chapters were 3 (Kalam Argument), 8 (Monotheism and the New Testament), and 10 (Book of Mormon and Ancient Near Eastern Background). As far as recommending this book, I would certainly do so for those who are more learned in the fields of philosophy, theology, and the background of the Mormon Church. However, this is not meant to be a popular book or one that can be easily digested by the majority of Christian and Mormon laity. Thus, for such people, I would think that TNMC will have very little impact since much of the material will sail over their heads. Based on this, each reader needs to make a personal choice...

Rating:
Summary: These authors didn't even start from the right place
Review: SO lets get this strait. Mormons will soon be the number one fastest growing religion. WHose threatened by this? Fellow christians. So they write lots of books refuting the mormon claim about the origins of the book of Mormon. Well now I'm not a genious but main stream christians cant 'prove' the virginity of Mary any more then they can 'prove' Mormons are incorrect in asserting the return of Christ to the AMericas. So why argue.

Religion is based on faith. Its about God. So how can you argue about that. How can we argue about the number of angels in heaven? Its impossible to know. Ahh the meriments of Judaism! No mysteries, no virgins, just good old fashioned Abraham and Isaac and circumcision.

The only positive thing about the growth of Mormonism is that we will finally have a christian sect capable of defeating Islam. Main stream christianity is pacisfisct in nature. Mormons are viscious and ready to draw the sword of the archangel and slice down the Islamic apostates.

Rating:
Summary: A new dimension of the Evangelical?Mormon conflict
Review: The authors of The New Mormon Challenge invite their readers to concentrate on a new dimension of the Evangelical-Mormon conflict. Although the popular literature on evangelizing Mormons remains to be the formidable choice for surface encounters, the authors capitalize on the more scholarly research that has been grounding Mormon apologetics for years. For these academicians, gone are the days of citing Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18-19 against the charge of the Book of Mormon being a valid extra-canonical book supplementing and correcting the Bible. Now Evangelicals must address the apparent chiasmus and Hebraisms allegedly found in the Book of Mormon that point toward a Jewish authorship. We may also remember the powerful Smithsonian Institution's "Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon" as it proclaimed evidence against the Book of Mormon's archaeological allusions. But Mormon scholars now hypothecate discoveries in ancient America that appear to vouch for the characters and places mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Could the average Evangelical layperson handle these counterarguments? Moreover, is the seminary student aware of the Mormon research that attempts to vindicate its history and theology? The authors of Challenge contend that they are pioneering the necessary scholastic material designed to counter the scholarly responses posed by Mormon professors and apologists and that their book "is a truly groundbreaking and epoch-marking book" (19). Indeed, the time for scholastic seminary research to marry counter-cult apologetics has arrived!
The New Mormon Challenge is a threefold response to the new challenges made by Mormon apologetic research: (i) The authors of Challenge, as well as Evangelicals in general, have made themselves "aware of the work of their LDS counterparts" and they "thoughtfully engage the new LDS scholarly apologetics" (20); (ii) Challenge "will challenge certain stereotypes and misinformed caricatures Christians commonly, but regrettably, have about the Mormon faith"(20); and (iii) "This book will challenge the Christian community - from the person in the pew, to the pastor in the pulpit, to the scholar teaching in the seminary - to recognize and effectively respond to the new Mormon challenge" (21). The authors of Challenge have "assembled a team of respected Christian scholars" (20) to address this threefold response. I must say that this is an understatement. The scholars included in this book excel at their crafts. Challenge includes theologians of the Old and New Testaments, philosophers, and language specialists who critically evaluate the material that makes the new Mormon challenge a growing force. The only deficiency of the book is that it is only a partial apologetic -- it does not address the Trinity, the issue of deification, soteriology, and ecclesiology. But the authors assure us that this book is only the beginning of the challenge.

Rating:
Summary: "Republicans" seen through "Democrats'" eyes
Review: While Owen and Mosser are much better scholars than the usual batch of Biblicists, this is still not a neutrally informative book but an anti-Mormon screed. It takes evangelical Protestant assumptions, co-opts them as being "Christian" and sees how Latter-day Saints measure up. Kind of hard to measure up to something written by an enemy.

BUT, if you're going to read an anti-Mormon book, this is a cut above the usual nonsense. Owen and Mosser are at least in dialogue with the LDS intellectual community, so avoid most of the bloopers other anti-Mormon polemics fall pray to.

Rating:
Summary: The real challenge rest unchallenged
Review: Why? It is funny to see how each side try to do their best in 1) undestanding each other 2) disliking each other.
Somehow it is a contrastive dialectic discourse: ie you exist because of an "anti-you", in this the American Evangelical movement seems more stable when it can write a 400-page-book just to prove that they were right from the beginning and by this book there surely are! (Waiting to read how FARMs will pinpoint that they surely had it all wrong from the beginnig!)
I am Swedish (north of Europe) and Lutheran. I have been brought up in an inclusive definition of Christianity, that is I don't see any difference between LDS or "Orthodox" Christianity.
I bought the book because I became attracted by its objective to be different, not the typical anti-LDS, but I was disappointed when I started with the second part.
The whole book itself explain the LDS belief through the eyes of an atheistic naturliastic worldview, but never tries to see the Evangelical belief system itself from the same perspective. The scholars are the typical Bible-believing scholars who would never accept that the Genesis creation story came from the Babylonians or that the Jewish god was a tribal god, became more "monarchotheistic" (which they say the LDS god is) and finally thru the post-exilic scriptures the only true god (monotheistic). It is funny that the scholars believe in a sort of absolute retoric (spell?) that can disprove and prove something as subjetive as religion or the nature of god.
The scholars believe in an actual revelation in the past thru god. The writers call god a "he", attribute to her/him sur-human and suprior powers, making the being so utterly non-human that we end up never grasping her/him, because we should not, but Joseph Smith did and well for me, I have not, but I am not writing any 400-page-book for that. Hm!
I would like to make a suggestion for the LDS and the American Evangelicals to join each other in answering the challenges of a naturlistic worldview which do not accord any divinity to the Bible nor the Book of Mormon but challenges both in regarding Jesus, as a normal human being, concieved in a human way, resurrected in the minds of his followers (I would not accept Mel Gibson's film as any sort of proof!)
This challenge is still unchallenged, because Christianity nor any other religion has never had the time to actually see the changes in the world, the needs of the people, the cruelty of human beings but try to disproove other beliefs in writing good night stories for Evangelicals, so that when they pray, they SHOULD see difference in the god they pray to, that s/he is not of flesh and blood, or that s/he is not the author of Book of Mormon ...